John Calvin on Deborah…
Here’s what John Calvin has to say about Deborah, taken from his comments on 1Timothy 2:11-13:
A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
If any one bring forward, by way of objection, Deborah (Judges 4:4) and others of the same class, of whom we read that they were at one time appointed by the command of God to govern the people, the answer is easy. Extraordinary acts done by God do not overturn the ordinary rules of government, by which he intended that we should be bound. Accordingly, if women at one time held the office of prophets and teachers, and that too when they were supernaturally called to it by the Spirit of God, He who is above all law might do this; but, being a peculiar case, this is not opposed to the constant and ordinary system of government.
Calvin’s comments here just as a reminder that, although the straightforward teaching of the biblical order of the sexes done on this blog strikes some of our readers as monstrous, it’s boringly normal throughout all Church history. The only way to escape the suppressive egalitarian and feminist ethos permeating the Church today is to fall in love with our fathers and mothers who are long gone, feeding from their generous hands as they lead us back to the precious truths of Scripture.
The next question will be, “But what if, today, God were to raise up a woman leader as an out-of-the-ordinary act? Would you recognize her as such, or (with your mind set so rigidly against even the possibility of God-ordained female authority) would you oppose her and try to delegitimize her (and therefore God’s) work? If you had been alive in Deborah’s day, wouldn’t you have opposed her leadership? If not, why not? You set up the idea that exceptions to the rule may exist and yet never find one that fits the criteria.”
David L’s comment is a good one. While I would not support a woman in the pastor’s role, I do support women participating in say Sunday School, under male headship, in such a way that another man might actually learn from her insight, experience, and application of the materials.
To David L.
If you believe that the canon is closed then 1 Tim. would be God’s final word on the matter. Based on what God has stated what reason would we have to believe God would raise up such a leader today?
It seems the only way to recognize such a thing would be some extraordinary event to occur which would carry more weight than 1 Tim. Does Judges carry more weight then 1 Tim.? Can you think of any such event? Can you think of one women leader today that seems to have God’s “backing” in a way which would lead us to understand 1 Tim. does not apply?
- Ethan
Narcissim (control freaks) seems to be a big problem, especially amongst people in authority (Fathers, uncles, husbands, pastors etc). That is why the patriarcal system frightens people so much. All religions are a breeding ground for this problem. Too many so called authories seem to ignore the part in Ephisians stating that the head of the household must honor and respect your wife. Many of you don’t. Why because no one is around to make sure you men are behaving and dressing and speaking to your wife and kids properly.
The problem with Calvin’s comment that Deborah’s being a judge was an’extraordinary act of God’ is that it assumes something that the author of Judges does not support. There is no indication in Judges 4 & 5 that the author thinks it extraordinary. And the outcome of her leadership was 40 years of peace which would seem a positive comment. Calvin’s description is a result of his assumption that women shouldn’t lead.
Then there is the argument that effectively states that ‘this is what Christians have always believed and so it must be right’. What about creation? Many Christians now don’t believe in a literal 6 day creation. What about the issue of slavery? This also was believed to be sanctioned by the Bible. Charles Hodge wrote a chapter in the 19th century anti-abolistionist book ‘Cotton is King’ that outlined the biblical support for the keeping of slaves.
Surely the fact that Calvin felt it necessary to write what was quoted above indicates that then too there were some Christians who were supporting women in some leadership roles as well.
Ethan asked whether Judges carries more weight than 1 Tim. But neither does it carry less. Although this then raises the question of identifying what is prescriptive and what descriptive in Scripture. Does the fact that patriarchy is described in Scripture without censure mean that it is decreed by God? Slavery is treated in the same way.
There is also a need to be careful about assumptions. In 1 Tim 2, when Paul says that ‘Adam was formed first’ it is assumed that this means he has authority over Eve. Yet there is no evidence for this assumption anywhere in Scripture, or for that matter anywhere in 1st century rabbinical sources.
Also when Paul says the husband is the head of the wife it is assumed that this is not just a description of how things were in that society but also of how things should be. Nothing in the text supports the second part of this assumption.
What undermines the assumptions needed to support patriarchy is the fact that nowhere in Scripture is the husband told he is to lead his wife, nowhere is he told that he has authority over his wife or that he is to exercise it. The Bible’s silence at this point would seem to undermine the idea that the husband is to have this role.
Well, given I believe the role of women is as you say…what of children…say 14 and 15 year old boys? Do you think the Bible supports them in roles of preaching and teaching? What if any is the standard by which they should be judged as men? Also, is an evening service less important for purposed of cahin of command than morning service? In other words should a young boy or woman be allow to preach or teach there instead?
Please oh please keep writing! Your articles are wonderful!
Somehow i missed the point. Probably lost in translation
Anyway … nice blog to visit.
cheers, Hiragana.